The Power of Pre-Planning: Why It Matters More Than You Think – Transcribed
Episode Description:
Pre-planning a funeral may not be the most comfortable conversation—but it just might be the most important. In this inaugural episode of The Good Grief Podcast, Michael O’Connell and Pete Waggoner unpack the reasons pre-planning makes a profound difference for grieving families.
From preventing financial strain and family conflict to offering clarity during chaos, they discuss the emotional relief that comes with planning ahead. Michael shares real stories, offers wisdom from years of experience, and explains how pre-planning becomes a healing gift—not a burden.
Whether you’re new to the idea or just need a nudge, this episode is full of helpful, heartfelt advice to make tough conversations easier.
Takeaways:
Pre-planning helps prevent arguments and eases emotional stress
It ensures your wishes are honored—and not left up to others to guess
Starting the conversation early leads to better outcomes for everyone
In This Episode:
[1:20] What pre-planning really means and how it works
[4:55] Why families fight—and how pre-arranging prevents conflict
[8:30] Pete’s personal story about not planning vs planning ahead
[13:05] How emotions complicate decision-making in a time of grief
[16:20] The difference between a will and a pre-plan
[20:05] What to expect at a seminar and how to register
[27:00] Pre-paying options and tools available for every budget
[34:45] How much detail should you include in your plan?
In This Episode:
[1:20] What pre-planning really means and how it works
[4:55] Why families fight—and how pre-arranging prevents conflict
[8:30] Pete’s personal story about not planning vs planning ahead
[13:05] How emotions complicate decision-making in a time of grief
[16:20] The difference between a will and a pre-plan
[20:05] What to expect at a seminar and how to register
[27:00] Pre-paying options and tools available for every budget
[34:45] How much detail should you include in your plan?
Resources:
Learn more and register for a pre-planning seminar: OConnellFuneralHomes.com
Seminar Info –
April 23rd Hudson chapel seminars at 10am, 2pm, 6pm
April 24th Baldwin chapel seminars at 10am, 2pm, 6pm
April 30th River Falls 10am and 6pm
April 30th Prescott 2pm
May 1st Ellsworth 10am and 2pm
May 1st Prescott 6pm
Seminar Info –
April 23rd Hudson chapel seminars at 10am, 2pm, 6pm
April 24th Baldwin chapel seminars at 10am, 2pm, 6pm
April 30th River Falls 10am and 6pm
April 30th Prescott 2pm
May 1st Ellsworth 10am and 2pm
May 1st Prescott 6pm
Social Media
Connect on Facebook (Hudson & Baldwin)
Connect on Facebook (Ellsworth, Prescott & River Falls)
Quote from Michael:
“You teach your kids everything else—how to ride a bike, how to save money, how to buy a house. Why would you abandon them when it comes to your funeral?”
Transcript Disclaimer:
Our episodes of the Good Grief Podcast include a transcript of the episode’s audio for people who are deaf or hard of hearing, if you’d like to scan the material, or have low bandwidth. The text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record.
[00:00:00] Pete Waggoner: everybody to the Good Grief Podcast along with Michael O’Connell. I’m Pete Wagner, and we are here in the Hudson, Wisconsin phenomenal facility of the O’Connell Family Funeral Homes and cremation services. I should add that to the official title here. Michael, how you doing?
[00:00:15] Mike O’Connell: I’m doing great.
[00:00:16] Mike O’Connell: Thank you very much.
[00:00:17] Pete Waggoner: We’ve got some big things coming up. You have a pre-planning event from the recording of the show coming up within a week so what we’re gonna do on today’s show is talk a little bit more about that and why people would want to attend this.
[00:00:30] Pete Waggoner: So why don’t we start there first, what is pre-planning and why should everybody be engaged with this?
[00:00:38] Mike O’Connell: Well, I love the opportunity to be able to discuss what we do with people ahead of time, because once someone’s sitting in front of you with a motion. It’s rather hard. So the pre-planning is very simple.
[00:00:52] Mike O’Connell: It’s simple but not simplistic. How about that? It is making decisions ahead of time so when the time comes, it ultimately [00:01:00] would make that time easier on the family. And so I just love to educate. And so this gives us an opportunity to be able to go out and talk about some of these things that otherwise might be.
[00:01:12] Mike O’Connell: A little delicate. I can’t by laws, I can’t go up to you Pete, and say, Hey, did you ever pre-arrange it? Well, no. Oh, okay. Well, that’s called solicitation really. And it would be ethical and it would be just wrong, right. To put you on the spot. So when we have seminars, it’s marketing, if you will, that isn’t designed at one person, it’s free will.
[00:01:35] Mike O’Connell: So people can come to us, we can answer questions. And then that makes so much of a difference when the time comes.
[00:01:44] Pete Waggoner: We’ve done a number of topics on this podcast, which I enjoy. This is probably the top for me because I think it’s just so important. I. For people to be aware of the benefits of pre-planning and what it can do for you and your family [00:02:00] across the board.
[00:02:00] Pete Waggoner: And I think the one thing that you talk about, it’s the number one thing you have on your website under the funeral plan pre-planning tab. Avoid the number one cause of family conflict at funerals, finances. You can address a ton of those things and what are some of the things that you’ve run into from that perspective that this can really cut off at the pass.
[00:02:23] Mike O’Connell: Yeah, there’s so many different angles on this. It’s gonna relieve the burden on the family when the time comes. It can ensure what your wishes are at the time. If you’re very set on something, and like you mentioned, financial planning, that you can protect the funds, so they’re always gonna be there when you die.
[00:02:43] Mike O’Connell: And it also, I mean, one of the biggest things that can avoid family disagreements because when the death occurs, the gloves sometimes come off, and that can be really unfortunate and ugly. And so it helps kind of give some, I’ll say [00:03:00] parameters for the family to work with to take away that opportunity for families to go after each other.
[00:03:05] Mike O’Connell: And it’s just peace of mind, I think part of the reason, well, I don’t think I know is. Talking about death, talking about your own death is usually a trigger for a lot of people. And I’ve had a very healing journey of recent and found out a lot about myself and others. And one thing that people really don’t want to talk about is their actual death, their demise.
[00:03:30] Mike O’Connell: We wanna kick the can down the road. I mean, everybody does funeral directors too, and so. It’s hard to explain how you feel and so, I hear this so many times the parents will say, well, I want to go to O’Connell’s and start my prearrangements. Do kids want anything? And the answer always is, whatever you want, mom and dad.
[00:03:51] Mike O’Connell: Well, that’s not necessarily, the healthiest. It’s doing it as a family is finding something that’s gonna be healing and [00:04:00] meaningful at the time. Because if it’s not, I think we’re all spinning our wheels.
[00:04:03] Pete Waggoner: So they’re part of the process. Correct. The family should be mom, dad, kids, whatever that may be.
[00:04:11] Pete Waggoner: Because what I find is interesting, I’m very comfortable talking about that component. If I bring it up to my kids, they want to kick it, the can down the road. Why is that? Because they don’t want me to go Right. And so the thing is, okay, how do I get through that and manage through that to get to what will avoid these conflicts?
[00:04:32] Mike O’Connell: Well, first of all, we have to accept reality. The Wall Street Journal just came out with the Wisconsin mortality rate this morning. Really? You didn’t know what it is? No. Well, it’s a hundred percent right. You’ve done that to me before and I bite on it every si. And you know what? It’s a new one every time, right?
[00:04:49] Mike O’Connell: It is. So we all are gonna be needing this service at some point, hopefully down the road. Some are closer than others, but when you prearrange and my [00:05:00] dad was that way, I remember he didn’t want to take a family photo because he said, I always see those at visitations. That they always say, we just took this family photo a couple months before.
[00:05:15] Mike O’Connell: Right. That was one of his big things. He didn’t want to talk about it. And it wasn’t until years of driving them to doctor appointments that I really started to delve into with them. ’cause I had, I’m, this is what I do, it’s my specialty, but I had a hard time discussing it with my parents. Right. So a lay person and emotions.
[00:05:37] Mike O’Connell: I, I get it. It’s not fun to talk about. But I will tell you, you will not bring the death any faster by talking about it. I think some worry about that. It doesn’t happen. You can’t, will it? No. But being prepared is great and we do it for everything else in life. Right? Right. You have insurance on your house in case it burns down.
[00:05:59] Mike O’Connell: You have car [00:06:00] insurance, you talk about new jobs, you talk about buying a house, new car, all these huge things in life we talk about, but we don’t wanna talk about our death. Because, we keep that as the variable that maybe it won’t happen. And I’m here to tell you, I haven’t seen anybody get outta here alive.
[00:06:17] Mike O’Connell: With technology and who knows. But right. Today, let’s talk today.
[00:06:20] Pete Waggoner: I’ve had I’ve brought this up before, I think on a previous pre-planning podcast where I had one parent, my mother, who pre-planned. And my father didn’t. They were divorced. He was remarried. There were all sorts of different points of view.
[00:06:35] Pete Waggoner: That was the messiest thing I could have ever seen in my life. My mother’s, of course, she was like so organized, was absolutely tic-tac toe and it was not a stressful situation. You lost a parent. But we were all happy because we knew. Everything was right and correct in that world at that time.
[00:06:56] Pete Waggoner: The other one, not so much. So through personal [00:07:00] experience, there are so many things that come into play. What are some of the things that you deal with for those that haven’t pre-planned and conflicts that maybe aren’t financially driven, but what are some of the things that may impact that as well that maybe people don’t think about?
[00:07:18] Mike O’Connell: I would say the biggest. The most impactful thing that we might have to address is the family dynamics. And I say that out of respect, that when someone comes in, , I’m not gonna sit here and tell you that I’ve got this all figured out, Pete. That I know how to express myself and my concerns, or my emotions or feelings as I’m trying to learn on that.
[00:07:47] Mike O’Connell: I really am. But that’s tough stuff and if it hasn’t been modeled and that you had these kind of discussions, having it out of the blue just doesn’t come natural. But family dynamics to me [00:08:00] is probably even more than the financial, is one of the biggest reasons to pre-plan. ’cause if you want to see your kids go at each other, don’t preplan.
[00:08:13] Mike O’Connell: You are inevitably putting them at odds with each other. How many ways can you divide a penny, Pete? You can’t. You can’t. But let me tell you especially after the second parent passes, they will drop the gloves and they’ll just go after anything. And it’s sometimes, it’s not even about the money.
[00:08:32] Mike O’Connell: It’s my mom, not your mom. It’s my mom. And I get that. We all wanna take ownership in our relationship with mom and, you hear it a lot that, well, Pete, you never came around to mom, so you never came to see her. You don’t even care. I was the one, yeah, I was the one taking her to the doctor appointments and I was the one with her when she was struggling with that.
[00:08:50] Mike O’Connell: And so now you want to come around and ask all these questions. And so instead of, I always say try to be curious. Just try to understand where someone’s coming [00:09:00] from. I’ve learned that instead of, do you want to be right? Or do you want to try to understand and actually have a conversation with somebody?
[00:09:08] Mike O’Connell: But that’s where I see family dynamics. At its worst when there’s assets or plans that need to be made. And sometimes when, I’ve had people say it, well, my kids can do that. That’s their problem. Oh I’ll let them deal with that. And I think that’s putting them like in a cage match together.
[00:09:30] Mike O’Connell: Don’t do that. Don’t do that. You teach your kids everything about life and you try to be a great role model and you try to leave them with assets or anything, but don’t try to just leave ’em, abandon them when it comes time that they really need some guidance.
[00:09:46] Pete Waggoner: What are the differences between if you have a will and what’s covered in that?
[00:09:53] Pete Waggoner: Versus this, are there differences and do some things carry over?
[00:09:58] Mike O’Connell: Well, just generally speaking, a [00:10:00] will is what you want, where you want your assets to go. You need some elder law attorneys that specialize in that because if you don’t have your plans protected, whether it could be a living, a revocable or irrevocable trust for your assets, you can wish anything.
[00:10:18] Mike O’Connell: But if you ever have to go on Medicaid. Those plans don’t, those wheels don’t mean anything. Right? Because the government wants to their share. If you’re in a care center and they have to protect, they have to pay for your way.
[00:10:32] Pete Waggoner: Okay, so other things. When you go to a seminar, what can someone expect?
[00:10:38] Pete Waggoner: Do you have ’em in, in, is there a visual? Are there handouts? How do you present this? What can I expect if I came?
[00:10:46] Mike O’Connell: Well, the best visual would be me. Of course, yes. Just making sure we’re on the same page. We know. So what it would be is, first we talk about the value of a funeral and I think people get lost in the weeds on this [00:11:00] and ’cause if I’ve heard it once, I’ve heard it, honestly thousands of times.
[00:11:05] Mike O’Connell: Well, I just wanna be thrown out in the chipper or the spreader, just throw me in the ditch or they can throw me in the garbage for all I’m concerned. Well, I get it. I get it. We don’t wanna be a burden to our kids and we don’t wanna draw a lot of attention to ourselves. But the bottom line is this, don’t underestimate how much impact you’re gonna have on your family when you’re gone, even if you didn’t have a great relationship.
[00:11:35] Mike O’Connell: They’re not only grieving the death, but they’re grieving maybe what should have been. And that can be just as hurtful and of the loss. So I think people lose focus on what the funeral’s for. If it was just for getting rid of a body, that’d be rather simple, wouldn’t it?
[00:11:51] Pete Waggoner: Right.
[00:11:52] Mike O’Connell: But it’s not. It’s about creating a healing event that’s gonna be for the foundation for them and the rest of their life.[00:12:00]
[00:12:00] Mike O’Connell: That I will stand by until the day I die because if we do a horrible job in that week, it’s going to be a intangible, it’s gonna affect them negatively. So if I came to your house with white carpet and I poured fruit punch on it, you can see the damage, right? But when you don’t grieve and you don’t process your emotions, you don’t get to express how you feel that just sits and it just starts.
[00:12:26] Mike O’Connell: Inside festering until it comes out. And it did for me. I never processed, just talking about my brother’s death. I did not take one day off. Now that’s kept going. I just kept going, thinking that’s how I’m honoring him. I need to step up. I need to do this. I put my own family behind that.
[00:12:45] Mike O’Connell: That was a lot of inward thinking that was my focus and I never grieved it. And so, yeah, it’s, it can be very difficult. But I think what people need to realize that is that, again, if you’re a [00:13:00] parent, I’ll ask you, Pete, how old are your kids again, if you don’t mind me asking. 29, 26. Okay. So.
[00:13:07] Mike O’Connell: You were there with them when they had their first loss of a boyfriend or girlfriend, right? Or maybe you sat on the when they came to prom. My son married his first girlfriend, so, okay. No, but how about this? My son got picked off third in a state championship game at 15 AAA baseball. Okay. I’ve never seen him weep that much.
[00:13:25] Mike O’Connell: Okay. You were there for him. I mean, it was loss, I mean, sure. You were there for him. You were there when he got his new car. I bet. And his new job. A hundred percent. And when he bought his new house. Yep. Do he have kids? Not yet. Okay. Your daughter? Not married yet. New job. Okay. Florida. But point being is that you’ve been there for every step of the way with them.
[00:13:43] Mike O’Connell: Right. Why would you abandon them? When it comes time for your funeral? People will come in and they’ll say, well, I met with the attorney. I did, I bought a grab. I did this and that, and so I’m all set. And so. But I did, could just cremate me and I’m not gonna [00:14:00] have a service. You just tugged on me right there in a really good way.
[00:14:04] Mike O’Connell: Why would I burden them with that? Why would I make that their problem? I mean, we work it together, like we said, engage that like you would everything else because it goes back to fruit punch. Correct. Because if you don’t, if you think, if you don’t deal with it, it’s just gonna go away by itself.
[00:14:22] Mike O’Connell: Uhhuh. Well, guess what? You ain’t faster than the speed of hurt. It will come back to you and it will bite you like it did me, and it will affect you in every part of your life, and it’ll affect those around you. But you don’t go and say, you know what? I never processed my feelings. I never dealt with this in a healing way, in a meaningful way.
[00:14:44] Mike O’Connell: Instead, you look at everyone else around you as the. Cause of your problems.
[00:14:49] Pete Waggoner: So have you noticed a direct correlation? I’ll give you an example. I went to a 50 49-year-old man who died suddenly a funeral. [00:15:00] He hadn pre-planned. I mean, he hadn’t even thought about it. And then I went to a pre-planned funeral, maybe a month later for an older gentleman and it felt like that one was.
[00:15:12] Pete Waggoner: I dunno if relaxed is the right word, but more
[00:15:17] Pete Waggoner: joyous I guess. Like it wasn’t, it felt a lot more prepared, I guess. And it felt like the grieving process was easier. That was just me thinking it through. ’cause I asked my buddy if he had, it was his dad and he said yes. Do you find a correlation from. Group to group that have done it versus has done it where it’s an easier process when you get to the day.
[00:15:42] Pete Waggoner: Oh, well, yeah. Or it feels different.
[00:15:44] Mike O’Connell: Absolutely. I don’t even have to say I see a group because they’ll tell me this was so much easier that mom and dad did this. Absolutely. Do they say we’re gonna do it? Well, no. That’s interesting, isn’t it? Yeah. They might say [00:16:00] what mom and dad did, but, or, I’m not gonna do that, or I’m gonna do this, but.
[00:16:03] Mike O’Connell: Again, it’s that, oh boy, me, no, let’s, right now we’re just gonna talk about them and but we are seeing numbers that are increasing, that people do want to prearrange, maybe pre-finance when they’ve been to someone else’s, whether it’s family or friend that does spur them to do that.
[00:16:24] Pete Waggoner: Can we talk about the pre-finance for a minute?
[00:16:26] Pete Waggoner: How do you set that up? Is it monthly biannual? How do you do that?
[00:16:31] Mike O’Connell: Well, we have some vehicles, let’s call ’em vehicles, tools, if you will, that you can put the money aside. And the question is, do you have it right? So we sit down and we go over an estimate, maybe you don’t have that funds, and if you don’t, then we’ve gotta look at some other alternatives that can be as meaningful, that are less expensive.
[00:16:52] Mike O’Connell: We always say we’re gonna work within their budget. We’re not here to sell them or provide a service that they can’t afford that just, well [00:17:00] compound their grief. So you come up with the estimate and then one of a few things can happen. Some people have it and they’ll say, I just want to give you a check today.
[00:17:10] Mike O’Connell: The other is, and it’s a I, before I was never a fan of it. It’s kind of to me like buying a truck. If you buy a truck for 10,000 on a five year loan, you’re gonna pay around 15, I’m guessing. Right? Right. What happens to the five? It goes to somebody else. It goes to the dealer, right? Yeah. So Prearrangements used to be that way, and now there’s vehicles that say, if your funeral, let’s say is 10 and you don’t you can’t write that check, but you wanna do it monthly or quarterly.
[00:17:41] Mike O’Connell: And so you have it over three or five or seven or 10 years depending on your age, and you make those payments, well, you’re gonna pay more. That 10,000, you might pay 17,000. I used to think, well, no way I’m paying that much if it’s just gonna go to them. But the [00:18:00] beauty of it is, it’s what we call return to premium.
[00:18:02] Mike O’Connell: So whatever you pay, you’ll get it back. You don’t lose anything. So if you end up paying over those 10 years, 17,000, that’s what you get. Whatever you don’t use, it goes to the family. They don’t keep any, we have our service charges. We don’t get to add some because there’s, oh, there’s extra money there. No Federal Trade Commission re regulates funeral homes very closely.
[00:18:27] Mike O’Connell: And we have to, we don’t get to add or distribute. We have our fees. So we take those out, whatever’s left, goes to the family. Now, one caveat to that is, is if you’re on medical assistance, the state’s not gonna allow, a family member to walk away with $3,000 in their pocket when they’ve been paying their way for grandma to be in the nursing home, right?
[00:18:46] Mike O’Connell: Which makes sense, right? Yeah.
[00:18:47] Pete Waggoner: But if you’re up and up on the cash situation, it’s equivalent to if you prepay at a gas station and you put $40 in. You only fill 35, the five bucks goes [00:19:00] right back onto your card. It’s kind of the same concept, right? I, yes. And don’t do you try to keep going and keep going?
[00:19:06] Pete Waggoner: Yeah. I, until you fill it, yeah. I try to squeeze it, gosh, until it hits my foot.
[00:19:08] Mike O’Connell: Oh my God, yes. Okay. Hundred percent. Yeah. You and I are quite alike, I think. Yes, I do the same, but yeah, that’s a good analogy. I never thought of it that way, but yep, that’s true. And then to get into the depth of it a little bit.
[00:19:18] Pete Waggoner: When you’re prearranging. Do you have the ability, are you like picking music and you know what the service looks like? Or is this more just around the services of am I what kind of casket are we talking about? I. Or I’m gonna be cremated. What kind of urn are we picking out? What’s the depth of coverage that you do in this process?
[00:19:40] Mike O’Connell: That’s a great question. I always tell about god bless her soul. Mildred Peabody from Hammond Mildred was she was the sexton of the Hammond Cemetery, and she had a voice that grabbed your attention and she was in charge. And so she called me one day and said, I want to come in and talk about my funeral.
[00:19:57] Mike O’Connell: Okay. And so she came [00:20:00] in and sat down and she pointed her kind of broken crooked finger at me and said, if you ever put a hanky in my hand, I will haunt you the rest of your life. Love it. And I’m like, wow, okay. I got it. No hanky. And she stood up and I’m like, what are you doing? And she goes, that’s it. I’m like, well, do you wanna talk about your funeral?
[00:20:19] Mike O’Connell: And she goes, I just did. And I said, nothing else. And she said, Nope, that’s it. Okay. I learned there it wasn’t, it’s not what I think you wanna do or what you need to do, it’s what you wanna do. So I always ask the question, what do you hope to accomplish today? My agenda is, it’s not about my agenda, it’s about what you’ve maybe worked up the courage to come in, and so I am not there to push you beyond those limits.
[00:20:49] Mike O’Connell: I’ll ask some questions, but I wanna accomplish what you want to talk about. So that can be as simple as, don’t put a hanky in my hand. Or it can be we [00:21:00] gather the basic information for an obituary or death certificate. It might be that we come up to the penny of what the estimate could be. It could be that we pick out dust in the wind, or how great thou art and.
[00:21:15] Mike O’Connell: It’s, that’s not gonna be at my funeral, Pete. Which one? How Great Thou Art and Amazing Grace will not be at my funeral. God bless those songs, they’re great. But I have heard ’em enough and it’s meaningful for me to have Dust, the Wind and Simple Man. Oh, are you doing Simple Man? Yeah. Really? Yeah, right.
[00:21:31] Mike O’Connell: That’s a favorite. Yeah. Little Skynyrd and yeah, that is, that’s that’s, so some do wanna delve into that now. I will caution them. If they’ve got kids, I’ll say, let’s leave some of this decisions to them too. Don’t take all their power away by doing too much, but if they want to, I’ll follow the lead.
[00:21:53] Mike O’Connell: But I just caution them on doing a little too much.
[00:21:56] Pete Waggoner: That’s a really good set of advice as we [00:22:00] prepare in the show notes you’ll have when the pre-planning seminars are occurring here, coming up very soon. And what did I hear you say? How many locations?
[00:22:10] Mike O’Connell: Well, we’re gonna do ’em at all of our locations. Next week’s gonna be Hudson and Baldwin.
[00:22:15] Mike O’Connell: Then the week after, it’ll be the River Falls, Prescott and Ellsworth. And again, it’s a great opportunity to begin the process. Or maybe they’ve already talked about it and it’s just to gather a little bit more to take that next step. Do you just show up? Do they have to register? What’s the best way to go about that process?
[00:22:31] Mike O’Connell: We like to have registration so we can be prepared for the handouts and the little goodies we’re gonna to have to give away or to eat. And then we also have some door prizes. So yeah,
[00:22:43] Pete Waggoner: so if everybody goes to O’Connell funeral homes. Dot com, that’s plural. Have the times there and then you call and sign up and I guarantee Pete, anyone that comes, we let ’em go home. Well, that’s really nice of you.
[00:22:56] Pete Waggoner: Yeah I thought so too. That’s very generous. People say, is there a [00:23:00] discount today? And I said, well, there is, but you gotta stay with us. They don’t like that answer. Yeah. Well, what’s that mortality rating again? A hundred percent. Thank you. Yep. Alright. Good stuff. Anything else you want to add here before we wrap up today’s podcast?
[00:23:13] Pete Waggoner: Don’t put off tomorrow what you can do today. Yep. And so, yes, this is difficult, but there can be beauty in difficult decisions with your family. Be vulnerable, be open, and just be curious and let us all together create something that’s beyond meaningful and healing and just really capture the essence and when people walk away and say, that’s what I want.
[00:23:35] Pete Waggoner: What a sense of comfort. And relief too. Yep. The benefits are. Across the board.
[00:23:42] Pete Waggoner: Thanks for joining us here today. This has been The Good Grief Podcast. Be sure to check us out on social on Facebook, and then of course the website, O’Connell family funeral homes.com. And I look forward to seeing you all at one of our seminars.
[00:23:57] Pete Waggoner: Thank you. Thank you, Pete. So everybody, thank [00:24:00] you.
